When I became concerned with the religious state of our community. The first person I thought of to gain some clarification from is Paula Thompson. She is major player in the UB organizations and a friend of mine for the last 15 years or so.
To one of her excellent ads at Facebook for her web radio show, "Cosmic Citizen," I asked...
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ALEX WALL - How about a show that discusses the fact that the movement is being turned into a religion by the major UB organizations? After all, isn't it TRUTH that we are seeking...
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That led to the following discussion among a few UB readers...
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MIKE BAIN - Alex - You have an excellent and valid point. We are to exhibit the Spirit, a Living and Breathing aspect of Truth that cannot be contained by words, powers, etc. only experience, and most of it personal spiritual experience.
ALEX WALL - Thanks, Mike.
[Since it is unlikely that I will be interviewed on this matter (ha, ha)I'm going to take a mile from that inch now... :) This is very long so people might want to just not read it, if they aren't interested or prefer to remain blissfully blind, rather than complain about its length.]
Also, doesn't that Living and Breathing Spirit often move us to pray, in private (like I do many times a day)? Why must I have to be "LED" by another person's prayer, if I don't want to be? Festivals like the one just passed (TUUFF) are wonderful opportunities to meet and have face to face discussions (and even debates). But I'm not interested in the moralistic religious tone and scheduled group prayer and worship each day. That is against my personal religion. I find it offensive and spiritually intrusive.
Here's a link to the schedule so people can see for themselves:
http://ubron.org/groupdocs/TUUFF10-Schedule.pdf.
My question to everyone is...
What Foundation or Fellowship festival can people like myself meet at, with UB folks from all over the world, but who have agreed not to be subjected to preplanned religious ceremonies of any kind?
Perhaps in a festival like THAT there would be only *spontaneous* praying, and when the Living and Breathing Spirit moved any group of people there, they could express their joy through worshipful group-praise for this *special* group event that they PERSONALLY experienced, right THEN (not on some "schedule")? Perhaps group prayer and led-worship RETARD the efforts of that spirit at UB functions--including Study Groups? How would anyone who uses group prayer know?
Or maybe people won't be interested in any socio-religious expression...Shouldn't that be okay too. Wasn't the whole idea od TUUFF to be inclusive? At least people like myself wouldn't be forced to endure being "directed" by someone else's religious expression. None of that would preclude a (potentially more) profound and joyous, spiritual experience for all! :D
REAL things would actually get done, not just resolutions like for the orgs to "not speak despairingly of each other." I mean!...what does that have to do with the individual readers? Who really cares?? Unity will never be achieved by this kind of top-down, organizational approach. It seems all we really need is a unification of (organizationally unaffiliated) READERSHIP--as such(!), not an impossible, impractical and possibly-immoral, organizational religious "unity."
People (especially younger people) want dynamic group SPIRIT, not worn-out religious ritual.
All of this is what I mean by the UB *organizations* (the prominent members of which populated and led TUUFF) trying to turn the "Urantia" Book readers (after all, the orgs hold the licenses to use that word--not you and me) into a literal "Church of Urantia."
But, they will NEVER speak for this Urantian...And I would be happy and proud to be kicked out of their church. The organizations have lost the secular battle for the movement, so in desperation they have chosen to religify it. They are NOT the leaders of the Urantia Book movement! Do not be deceived by the money and power they throw into their efforts. And if you are a thinking person, stop donating to them. Yes, I said that. And I mean it. I urge people to boycott the UB organizations until they drop religiosity from the menu entirely--no quarter. This is TOO important ignore.
All just my obviously very strong opinion of course... :) ...and it is meant in the spirit of progressivism, with loving intent, and is not purely as a criticism, and not meant as being directed toward any one person...especially Paula, probably the most UB-service-oriented human being alive today. This NEEDS to be discussed, not ignored blown-off... And I plan to discuss it all over the place.
MIKE BAIN - I would hope that your post was not removed from this type of open and free-flowing forum, Chuck. I have greatly enjoyed FB because of it's open and inclusive nature. Not that it hasn't been a little too fluffy at times for me, but hey, fluffy is good too. If I am feeling I need to feel good, I come here. But, I like to see a balance, and I think ... See Moreyou represent that, Chuck.
You are voicing concerns that have been (or should be) in the back of every Urantia Book Student ever since the papers started transmitting.
Prayer schedules, etc are just part of the issue, the "churchification" issue, although I admit I have been ignorant of any aspirations from any UB orgs, is definitely going to continue to be a point of contention and disagreement because of the nature of Spirit.
In this regard, I am glad Richard Omura put me in my place as far as trying to identify ourselves as anything else but ascenders, because pigeon-holing people is the delight of the science-minded (and something that exists in the human brain anyway).
How will outstanding/understanding/fruitful/spiritual ascenders be known/inspirational/loving to others? "By their fruits you shall know them."
If I stop my routine to help someone in need; if I go out of my way to do something, I would hope that people would recognize the Spirit flowing from me, instead of what I attempt to represent to them. If they discern the Spirit, nothing especially identifying is needed. The Spirit speaks for us.
How do we do this? Well, some folks are joining ALL organizations, UB and otherwise (attend a mosque, a Buddhist monestary, and other spiritual places, all at once). And from there, they will see, we are not stuck in a human loop; because Spirit speaks in a greater loop that involves all ascenders. That's how I feel (in the Spirit).
Father Bless You All,
Michael Bain
ALEX WALL - Very well put, Mike!
I like the idea of joining ALL (relevant) organizations. That's a good one too. It beats the hell out of joining only a few. Being exclusive to only a few severely limits one's perspective. Organizations have one goal: loyalty to the organization. That's it. Especially religious ones.
The biggest problem is the inability to see what they are doing from the outside. It is scary to me that the concerns we have about this "churchification" is SO summarily discounted. I cannot see a way that the Foundation or Fellowship would ever experiment with non-religious festivals, meetings, study groups, conclaves, or international conferences. They won't even comment on it.
So it is time to leave them. Frankly, at this point I would want to be associated with ANY organization, more than a "Urantian" one, except maybe UBRON.org. The others embarrass me. It pains me to no end that a huge amount of money was left by one of my relatives to these folks. That will not happen again. Its donor would be livid if she were to see what is taking place now.
So, I say again to anyone who's eyes fall upon these words: Don't attend the religiously based functions of these orgs. Leave them! Don't support them financially. Or if you do, INSIST that they listen to your concerns. Urantians are smart people but they are making bad investments in these groups.
The leaders of THESE orgs TRULY believe that they have a mandate from heaven to lead us all. THEY DON'T. That is a self-deception, if not an all-out lie!
Someone just emailed me and asked, "But Alex, who will organize and fund meetings and future Urantia festivals?"
Are we SUCH slaves to the ideas and goals of others, who we assume have our best interests in mind? Do we have no ability to come up with answers on our own? People need to think for themselves.
If we want a festival, one of us starts a blog about it.
We attach a donate button from PayPal to the site. Then we advertise the festival as "...an event free of religious ritual and open to ALL UB READERS, and all PEOPLE." People passionate about the freedom of expressing religious beliefs without official manipulation, heck, people who value any kind of Cognitive Liberty, will readily volunteer for positions in the making of a grand Urantia event, I know they would.
Perhaps someone who is reading this very sentence will really show us how it's done. I'd do it myself but I've lost track of all the irons in my fire. Plus, I can't do EVERYTHING. :P :) I will set up the blog and attach PayPal though, if others would join in and take over? This is a limited time offer.
I absolutely GUARANTEE that more relationships will be made, more books will be distributed, more guilt-free enjoyment will be had by all. And a new demographic willl become apparent: YOUNG PEOPLE (many more of them anyway).
In this fantasy Urantia Festival, free-spoken lectures will be set up not filtered by by the high priests of the Urantia Foundation or Fellowship by subject (as is done now) but simlply in the order they are received. Under every tree could be a person with an idea, even if they are controversial in the eyes of organized UB readers. People would be free to visit with each-other, unburdened by "praying schedules."
It would be a music and art festival. UB readers would sell their goods, UB entrepreneurs would advertise their business. Urantians who know about concessions would handle food services. All profits would go towards the NEXT festival...etc...
Every major aspect will be run by the blog followers. Online polls could be taken (at UBRON, for example, since truthbook.org is out of the question because of its high degree of censorship) to determine what folks REALLY want.
The "bottom" of our movement will determine everything. The READERS must become the LEADERS.
This sounds idealistic and radical to the "1,000-year" conservatives, text-fundamentalists, UB science fundamentalists, and to people who like the ignorant, static, comfort of where they are now...
But we can expect no help at all in this endeavor for a festival or the purging of churchification form the orgs from our Urantia establishment. As far as they're concerned, God's pipeline does not diverge from the minds of the Trustees and Boards of the UB orgs. They believe that because they have the money to do things (for now), that they MUST be favored by the Revelators or Celestial beings of some kind. THEY'RE NOT. In fact, I would bet that the unseen overseers of our world are seriously frustrated by our animal tendency to seek fluffy, self-aggrandizing, systems that can be set up and not have to be tinkered with by their lazy leaders.
As for these leaders...
Who among them will do the hard thing?
Who among them will have the courage?
Who among them will do the RIGHT thing?
What yet-unknown human angel of PROGRESS will step out into the Light, and wrest this UB beast (The Urantia Foundation and Urantia Book Fellowship Church) to the ground, before it can even get started, and then chain it there where it belongs?
Social religious success will come when people leave each other's belief systems ALONE! We have never seen what it is like to offer ABSOLUTE religious freedom, as a UB community. It is well-past time to start.
If these changes could be prosecuted fully, the word "Urantia" would cease to be the name of a "book" and a recidivist community of disparate and confused, readers and deluded leaders, and instead would take its rightful place AS THE NAME OF OUR WORLD, supported by a STRONG, but diversified (unaffiliated) UB readership and FER commUNITY.
People who wish to read more about the specifics of this situation are welcome to follow my blog:
http://ubphoria.blogspot.com/
I will be posting a series of essays there on this subject.
Peace, Light and Love,
Alex/Chuck
PATRICK MCNELLY - I too am uninterested in organized prayer and worship in these types of gatherings including study groups. I did not join the Urantia brotherhood 40 years ago to become a member of a religious group that has organized prayer and worship events at their conferences. I'm in the minority Paula? Why can't we just print, publish , translate and ... See Moredistribute books and leave the rest of the church stuff alone? The whole movement smells of a new age religion. There's work to be done and I think you are a tireless servant. But let's stop the churchy stuff.
PAULA THOMPSON - Alex, I never see you at conference so I don't know where you get your "facts." To say that because UB readers want to worship and pray together we are becoming a "religion" is no more accurate than saying, because we want to study together we are a book club. We should know that one size doesn't fit all. If you ever do come to a Urantia ... See Moreconference and we happen to offer group worship and you find that to be a turn off, go smoke a cigarette, or whatever.
Patrick, I could easily say that because I don't care for the kinds endless debates that take place on UBRON, YOU should stop doing it. How silly is that? If the Most Highs stand back in merciful respect of the prerogatives of will, who are any of us to try to dissuade each other from worshipping or debating or whatever we do that stimulates them and helps them get through the night down here?
ALEX WALL - Hi Paula,
Reading more carefully and being more diplomatic, would be a good idea in this case since it's not going away...But what can I expect? I'm well-trained in the mosh pits and dirty debating trenches of UBRON. I would not be raising this issue if I thought I didn't have solid facts and a damn good way of presenting them. You, on the ... See Moreother hand, have been bounced in the fluffy bed of self-righteous truthbook censorship, of IGNORING the uncomfortable questions and concerns of readers.
And the biggest mistake you're making is that you think I'm an isolated case, with no backing. That is because you have not soiled yourself with the issues discussed and read by the 2,000+ members of UBRON. Soon you will see that I'm nothing special, but rather the vanguard-voice of a HUMUNGOUS creature, I call THE READERSHIP. What you would have learned at UBRON (the ONLY online UB FREE-speech forum), had you been paying attention, is that the waves of unaddressed issues, uncomfortable questions, desire for clear DEMOCRATIC leadership in the movement are piling up, rising to utterly overwhelm this organizational arrogance that you defend without question. You are underestimating the situation.
The FACTS I used were taken from your very schedule for the TUUFF (which I have provided a link to)! I don't list facts without citation. People who know me know that.
Here it is again:
http://ubron.org/groupdocs/TUUFF10-Schedule.pdf
I sure hope every person who reads this will download this document and read it, as it is the first in a large series of indesputable evidence that the UB orgs are perforimng religious ceremonies, that makes them the perveyors of a their own church.
I have no problem with UB readers wanting to pray together at events--and very clearly and extensively said so, simply read the prior posts on this thread. Also, I accept being led in prayer when I visit my home-town church. But NEVER, NEVER by a fellow Urantia Book reader, as a scheduled session, at a public event.
*********What I have a problem with is THE DIRECTION OF RELIGIOUS CEREMONY BY THE UB ORGANIZATIONS. Why don't you address THAT, Paula?*********Why can't you simply address my point without trying to make this some personal problem I have? I have lots of personal problems, but this isn't one of them--unfortunately for you.
It is always interesting to me that the key words "religious ceremony" and "UB organizations" are ignored in your responses to me on this issue. You foolishly frame me as being "anti-UB-prayer."
The leaders of religions prepare religious ceremonies. How can that be argued? What makes Foundation and Fellowship leaders different, when they prosecute such a venture?
I already said I would go to a conference if there were no scheduled and led praying and worship activities. I also said I would be likely to find myself praying frequently and praying with small groups of others, but SPONTANEOUSLY (go back and re-read what I said). So to misrepresent me as a person against "UB readers praying" at events is extremely prejudicial and clearly shows your bias and your agenda in this regard, and very frankly shows that you're not even willing to READ what I'm saying.
And you compare debate at UBRON with organized prayer at your newly establishing church???
Honestly I too get sick of the text-fundamentalists at UBRON. You would enjoy it there lately with Mr. Warren ruling the show. But I know what to expect when I go there. And no matter what happens at UBRON it does not effect my personal religious experience EVER. I don't see your name as a reader of UBRON discussions. Why? Well, I theorize that hearing what UB readers REALLY think and how people REALLY are would seriously threaten your world view.
Surely you must know that praying is the most personal and important part of soul growth? Attempting to compare the sometimes-rotten, sometimes-delicious apples of UBRON with the forced and unearned authority of the oranges of a Urantia Fellowship Church revival is illogical, and seems desperate.
Further, have you any idea how insulting it is to be callously and unthinkingly told to "go smoke a cigarette or something" (to a survivor of heart disease from smoking cigarettes--having quit ten years ago). You propose that I should isolate myself with all of my friends who share my convictions about religious ceremony), just because YOU are demanding that the rest of the people bow their heads and accept YOUR leading in their personal religious experience? Are you serious? We know that cigarettes KILL people. You are suggesting that I temporarily "disfellowship" myself during your church service and go outside to hurt myself. What a metaphor for your detached sense of what MOST UB readers are, and think...I'd rather you'd said, you outside and play Russian Roulette while we exclude you from our movement--it would have been more direct.
So let's sum up:
1) You refuse to provide an environment free of religious ceremony, where ALL UB readers can feel comfortable.
2) You refuse to even discuss taking religious ceremony out of your events.
3) The decisions of the organizations that UB readers donate their hard-earned money to are made completely without considering such an important concern from those readers. I know this because that is happening to me at this very second.
4) People who do not agree with being prayer-led in ceremonial UB Foundation and Fellowship-organized events, should SEPARATE themselves from the others because of their religious convictions.
I'll be adding more to this list of FACTS, as we delve deeper into the intentions of the org leaders, so we can all see just how far this fervant religious mission runs in our community.
I was going to move discussion of this off of your Facebook wall, because I really don't consider YOU to be the root of this problem. But the Kool-Aid stains on your last reply to me and your willful diversions of the POINT as well as your unfair misrepresentation of that point, has fully erased my sympathy for your involvement in this.
You try to speak as if your finger rests on the pulse of the greater readership, when in fact it only monitors the apparently barely perceivable heartbeat of blinder-wearing, UB religionists, organizational insiders and the relatively tiny group of yes-men and women you surround yourself with; people who are unable to make peace with the FACT that the UB is not meant to base a religion around, AND that is EXACTLY what you are doing. And now no one within the orgs is allowed to "speak despairingly" of them? How do you think all this looks to new readers who are sick of other people's religious beliefs being jammed down their throats, having just come out of a century of organizational deception and self-perpetuating agendas, in a world of darkness?
I'm not going away. I have been very clear about everything that I've said. I know it is lengthy in the form I've taken here. But it really just boils down to the four FACTS that I've listed above.
As at UBRON, I will not continue saying the same thing over and over with people who have blinded themselves to the point of not even reading carefully. People unused to heavy debate are simply incapable of addressing the issues. You watch, folks, others will attack me personally, attack my life, my behavior, try to discredit my extensive work in the UB reader's community, twist the obvious, naively call me an outsider, an egotist, a self-promoter, in league with Caligastia, long-winded, without substance, arrogant (that's usually the favorite one), sentimental, emotional... I really have heard them all. :) And after I get done yawning, I will do what I've always done: redirect them tirelessly and for ever-more BACK to my POINT.
PAULA THOMPSON - Alex, I'm sorry to offend you in saying "smoke a cigarette or something" it's figure of speech.
Here's another thought, why don't you get a group of like-minded believers together and create the conference of your dreams. That's what Halbert has done and he's getting some traction. Obviously, no event will ever entirely please everyone, that's the point.
If you put forth the effort to create an event, you'll see what I mean.
I didn't create TUUFF, I had nothing to do with creating it, I just attended it and enjoyed it. If you don't like the program that is created by a group or individual for a Urantia event, it's really quite simple, just don't go. I'm glad you like UBRON but I don't, so I don't go there. It's a choice, and I like being able to choose what I do. Don't you?
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At this point Paula UNFRIENDED ME at Facebook.
Actually her final message mentioned that I must be proud of myself for being so "tuff" and such "a good debater." But she quickly withdrew that emotionally driven response and replaced it with what we see above. This was probably because she realized that she was fulfilling my prophecy that I would be attacked PERSONALLY, because my POINT couldn't be argued against.
Paula Thompson of all people!! The kindest, gentlest, most service-oriented UB reader in years, has thrown me our of the official UB family. But it isn't to be...
I can't blame her, really. When you are being PROVEN WRONG, the best strategy is to kill the prover. We had been friends for over ten years. This is how Paula "LOVES" the friends who disagree with her. I thought this was only a debate and didn't realize that she based our friendship upon it. Oh well!
It's all gone, folks. Whatever civility seemed to be left in the UB Fellowship's leadership is completely gone. Pray for them. They're gonna need it.
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